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Report 1325
Report #1325 Skillset: Necroscream Skill: QueensLament Org: Cacophony Status: Completed Jul 2015 Furies' Decision: Approved for solution discussed in comments - when dyscrasia is active, QL adds 5% max health + 1s stun per plague aff, with an extra power cost. Sip balance loss will be omitted initially, but will be added if the initial solution is insufficient Problem: Necroscream is geared toward hindering offense and wearing our opponents down. This was well suited for the attrition style combat that we used to have. However, with no way to drive it home - we are all buildup and no bite. Problem 1 - We lack any kind of coordinated burst or sustainable damage. Ironchord is low damage and our targeted song only hinders offense. Problem 2 - Bards attack Mana & Ego on a % of their max values to damage the target's health. Targets with high Health and low Mana & Ego make these attacks less effective. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Increase the cost to 3 power. Change it to blackout and stun for 3 seconds and drain 10% of max mana and max ego. Nifilhema's lament is such that it tears at the soul. Once twisted by Dyscrasia, it tears at the body. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, when dyscrasia is up change the effect to be ironchord. For each plague aff add 5% of max health and 1 second of unconsciousness. Burns off (cures) all plague affs. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Change queenslament to be 3 power. Have it give a 4 second blackout and shackles - like it currently does. Have it break sparkleberry, sip (health, bromides and mana) and internal (dust) cure balances for 3 seconds - or for just 2 seconds if the target has blackout immunity. Have it give 12% mana and ego drain. Also include solution 2 but not solution 1. This isn't very elegant but hopefully going with more targeted hindering with a bit of a spam fail safe this will addresses some of the concerns raised. Player Comments: ---on 7/11 @ 00:23 writes: Solution 2 is fine with me at first blush ---on 7/11 @ 00:26 writes: I'm all for buffs to bards due to the harsh damage and health changes impacting us so heavily, but the solution to everything isn't to smack on the best afflictions in the game. Blackout and stun is not the solution to this, unconciousness definitely is not either. The solution, I think, should be to create end scenarios for bards that are unique to each guild (see my report and Sidd's minstrel report), not just throw powerful afflictions at spammable skills. Okay with the problem, solutions are way too much. ---on 7/11 @ 00:34 writes: I would support solution 2 if the unconsciousness is only available if plague affs are on the target, starting at 1s for the first, and +0.75s for each additional plague aff. Instead of uncon on-cast without requirements, perhaps blackout or shackles might be appropriate instead. ---on 7/11 @ 00:41 writes: Also, stun instead of uncon will likely be a better idea - unconsciousness prones as well, so its effectiveness will spike a great deal in groups, especially if shackles is chosen as replacement. Basically, my suggestion is to change queenslament so that the stun (instead of uncon) is gated behind the plague aff requirement, making it rewarding only if proper set-up is done. The scaling percentage health damage and increasing stun will make the skill a low- cost execute, and that should be the way the mechanics encourage its use, not to give it no-requirement stuns to be thrown out repeatedly without regard for whether the target is properly set up with plague affs. ---on 7/11 @ 21:29 writes: Thanks for the feedback. I changed solution 2 to 1 second of unconsciousness per plague aff. At 3 power and the set up required to capitalize on them I reject the notion that spaming them would be advantageous. ---on 7/11 @ 21:29 writes: Please keep in mind that 4 of the 5 plague affs hinder and their numbers increase the effects of torturesong, carillonknell and wrathfulcanticle. The opportunity cost of us losing them is significant. Aslo, since we have no way to track plague affs or stop the dozen or so ways of curing them so there will always be significant uncertainty. Opportunity cost + uncertainty = increased effect. ---on 7/12 @ 03:37 writes: There won't be a dozen ways to cure plague affs when the overhaul finishes. They'll be much easier to stack when things are all finalized so I don't think that's a valid discussion point. I think unconsciousness is really too much to have. As Lerad stated, unconciousness is stronger than stun, I would say at the very minimum, you should start at 1 plague aff to start with 1 second of unconsciousness. ---on 7/12 @ 13:53 writes: You can reject it all you want, anyone with a modicum of pk expierence and that is being honest will recognize a three second stun and blackout is prime spam material in most group fights. Furthermore, your curing is significantly hindered if stunned and/or unconcious in repeated succession and you have two (song + contagion) ways of applying plague affs, plus a song that causes cured plague affs to return. I'm cool with it being an endgame goal, but this report isn't addressing an endgame. It's alterting the entire setup with the best afflictions in the game. Not cool with just turning it into a more powerful group and hindering tool (almost without rival, I might add. 3 second stuns are rare. Stun and blackout together are even more rare, and in the case of cantors, often complained about). ---on 7/12 @ 13:55 writes: 3 second stun/blackout, web during blackout, reapply 3 second stun/blackout, web during blackout, reapply 3 second stun/blackout. Complete lockdown with no realistic way to escape. Pfifth on top of that. "Not spammable," my shadowy left boob. ---on 7/12 @ 17:38 writes: @Synkarin in response to Lerad's feedback I changed it start unconsciousness with the first plague aff. Also, unless the overhaul is going to consolidate dust, allheale, gedula/green, trueheal, princess, various passive curing, beast curing and the entire healing tert and everything else that I left out then we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not that is a valid point. ---on 7/12 @ 17:42 writes: @Celina if you think that unblockable aeon is equivalent to a minor ego/mana drain then I have nothing else to say to you or your overdramatic left boob. ---on 7/13 @ 01:35 writes: While I do appreciate sass in a report, it needs to be backed with evidence and information, and not just distractions used to cover up a lack of response to the concerns raised. We were talking about stun and blackout, not aeon, if you'd like to try again. Otherwise, 3 second stun/blackout is simply out of control for a targeted bard song. It's not good that cantors have it (albeit not three seconds long), and we should not be looking to them to mirror skill ideas in place of valid, achievable strategies. ---on 7/14 @ 05:44 writes: I added a solution 3 to address some of the issues raised. Instead of a blanket hindering like stun it specifies the minimum amount of hindering needed to achieve the desired goal. I upped the drain a little to account for the reduction in healing hindering. ---on 7/14 @ 22:16 writes: Getting closer! I think the effects need to be locked behind the plague affliction gate. This new suggetsion, with egovice is effectively 24% (ish, depending on the target) of health for 3 power with no pre requisite. Bards are pretty balanced over all, they just need a better endgame to account for the new surge in health across the board. I guess I'm just not following the train of thought here, if killing high health targets is the goal, why are you not loading up cacophony with a better, achievable kill condition rather than just arming them with rocket launchers and damage/stun/blackout spam. ---on 7/15 @ 15:59 writes: For the current solution 3: 1 extra power cost to add 3s of sparkle/sip/dust balance knock to the current Queenslament effect? Cure balance knocks are very strong, and when paired with blackout + shackles, the target effectively can't do anything - they can't move, attack, or cure. It's a defacto stun. It also synergizes badly with solution 2: if the target has plague affs and triggers the uncon, then the cure bal knock will be in effect... while the target is uncon and unable to cure anyway. Or, rather, triggering the uncon while the target is under the 3s of multiple cure bal knocks is fairly useless because they can't cure anyway, uncon or no. Like Celina, I agree that pushing the effects behind the aff gate is a better choice, rather than putting them upfront as a button to be leaned on even when the target doesn't have plague affs. Keep the current Queenslament as it is, with the same 2p cost, but implement solution 2 with the caveat that if its effects are triggered, an extra power is taken. You could then tie the cure balance knocks to scale as well, and come into effect AFTER the uncon wears off. 1 plague aff = 1s uncon and 1s sip bal knock after the uncon. 2 plague affs = 2s uncon and 2s sip bal knock after the uncon. Now THAT would be an execute ability. Limit it to just the sip bal knock, that's all you really need to prevent the target from curing up while you minorsecond them after triggering 3 or 4 plague affs. ---on 7/17 @ 00:58 writes: Solution 3 is pretty out of this world crazy, blackout, stun, 3 separate balances knocked off for 3 seconds, AND 12% mana/ego drain? Listing every random curing balance in the game doesn't really validate that there are a 'dozen' way to cure things. I'm not sure you'd like everyone starting to use that argument in every report from this point on. Solution 2 seems reasonable to me, solution 3 is crazy. ---on 7/28 @ 00:27 writes: Solution #4 Queenslament stays the same and at 2p unless dyscrasia is up and then solution 2 kicks in at 3p. I would not object to Lerad's suggestion of adding on a second of sip balance disruption after the unconsciousness ends either. ---on 7/28 @ 10:33 writes: ** addendum to solution 4 - change the normal queenslament to include a 1 second eq disruption to encourage using writhe. Same power cost. ---on 7/31 @ 23:38 writes: Solution 4 leaves the component that people seem ok with and will make the current situation slightly better by addressing the discrepancy between summer/tepheret and writhe (despair web increases writhe time by 1 second) which will normalize the effect and make it more predictably useful.